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I don't know how many of you are ex-soccer players, I was at a competitive level for many years, and I was in both positions (starter and sub) like every player that I am aware of.

When you are on the bench at every game it is hard to prove yourself, what resources do you have at your disposal?

1. Training harder, it will do little if you are "out of favor" with the coach.
2. If the starters fail to deliver in 80+ minutes coming as a sub and doing in less than 10 minutes what they could not do throughout a whole game?
3. If a starter is injured and suspended coming in and inserting yourself in the dynamics of the team to own the field beyond any reasonable doubt that you are the one. I have never met a player that can do that.

IMO, a proven player at a competitive sport –like Podolski- needs rotation as part of the regular ones, even when it means he is 3rd or 4th choice. Most are making the argument here that he needs that pressure so he can grow from that to improve, the same argument goes to Toni and Klose, they need to see the game from the bench at times, specially when they go on a slump or show signs of selfishness (and they went through this on the second part of November and December). The big European coaches bench their stars at all clubs all the time, and there are good reasons to do that.

Did Hitzfeld get any result when he started Podolski, specially the game that Toni was out injured? No. He rushed himself to shoot from long range, he did not pass the ball to Klose when he got open, all this “trying to prove himself” because he know there will be not too many chances after that game.

For me, Bayern is losing Podolski having him on the bench more than loaning him out, that theory of “we need 4 strikers” is absurd if two of them have calluses on their butt from sitting on the bench. I would agree if they say “we need 4 tuned strikers”

Jorge wrote:IMO, a proven player at a competitive sport –like Podolski- needs rotation as part of the regular ones, even when it means he is 3rd or 4th choice. Most are making the argument here that he needs that pressure so he can grow from that to improve, the same argument goes to Toni and Klose, they need to see the game from the bench at times, specially when they go on a slump or show signs of selfishness (and they went through this on the second part of November and December). The big European coaches bench their stars at all clubs all the time, and there are good reasons to do that.

Did Hitzfeld get any result when he started Podolski, specially the game that Toni was out injured? No. He rushed himself to shoot from long range, he did not pass the ball to Klose when he got open, all this “trying to prove himself” because he know there will be not too many chances after that game.

For me, Bayern is losing Podolski having him on the bench more than loaning him out, that theory of “we need 4 strikers” is absurd if two of them have calluses on their butt from sitting on the bench. I would agree if they say “we need 4 tuned strikers”

I don`t remember any game that Klose or Toni were too bad at! and on the second part of November and December, our midfield was the issue, I mean.. how could Toni and Klose score if they don`t get any good ball or a real chance to score?! and when it comes to the selfishness... it`s important to have that in a goal scorer (of course in a specific limit) but I don`t see that our main strikers have crossed the line. in fact, Klose was the reason why.. Toni found himself so quickly in the squad

I could not agree more with Jorge. If Hitzfeld is not rotating strikers then there is no support for his "4 strikers" argument.
And yes, there were games were both Klose and Toni were subpar and Hitzfeld shouldn't have waited until the 85 minute to send in Podolski (in most cases he never even got a chance to begin with). Using Poldi more frequently not just gives more chances and match practice to him but would send a clear message to Toni and Klose that they should not loose focus because we have talent in the bench at their positions.

On a different point, I have seen games were Klose has played a lot better than Toni but it was still Toni who received most of the praise from the management. Its like the management is trying too hard to keep him happy and IMO that has affected Klose, who after starting the season at a level higher than Toni, did not look so hot on the second quarter...

Hitzfeld is not the only person using the 4 striker argument. Uli is using it to. He has said that in his interviews therefore it is not just Hitzfeld.

Last year, Podolski was given a chance by Hitzfeld and he didn't do much then either. A lot of folks, including myself, were giving him the benefit of the doubt because of Magath and so on. Unfortunately, he ended up getting injured so he could not develop more and "prove" himself but in the time he had he still didn't do much.

As much as everyone wants him to show his talent, the thing is we do not know what kind of effort he puts in the practices. A coach is going to start a player who puts effort and determination and has a repoire with the others on the field. Who is to say that Podolski is showing these attributes but Hitzfeld is simply not starting him? We do not know. Podolski simply may not be putting in the effort that says, "Start me!!" Plus, there are the comments about how he is not in the best of shape. That is the current reason why he is 4th on the depth chart. You can blame part of that on the flu he had recently, but is he spending a lot of time working out? We do not know. They simply don't tell us that information.

As for the Klose and Toni argument...well, those two work well together, IMO. But, last year Klose went through a dry spell with Werder Bremen and I remember hearing every excuse as to why he was not scoring. So, I don't think Klose went on a dry spell because of Toni being praised by the management. He, just like Toni and other strikers, just dried up for a moment. Hopefully, he is back to normal.

I agree with most of what you said Tracy, but what I don't get is that what you just said seems to make an excellent case on why we should send him on loan and not why we should keep him for the rest of season (which I think is what you deem the right thing to do) given that he will probably not get much playing time.

Actually, I never did say whether I was for or against loaning Lukas to another club. I was stating why he won't be loaned out and I also said that I agreed with Hitzfeld, Loew, and Bekenbauer that Lukas needs the competition to push himself. One would think with Klose and Toni at the club that Lukas would push himself to show that he deserves to be a starter and the star of the team. Actually, I think most folks felt the same way and it has not turned out that way so far.

I also think what the top brass are saying to Lukas is that this is Bayern Munich and not Koln. Here one has to work their a**es off to be the starter, to be the star and so forth. One does not get things for free. I think that is what they have been trying to get him to see for a long time. Bayern is a big club and things there are not the same as they are at Koln.

As the saying goes...one must pay their dues before they have success. Perhaps this is Lukas' time to pay his dues before he will be the star of the team? I believe that he will get better but I believe it is going to take him just a little bit more time.

walter wrote:I could not agree more with Jorge. If Hitzfeld is not rotating strikers then there is no support for his "4 strikers" argument.
And yes, there were games were both Klose and Toni were subpar and Hitzfeld shouldn't have waited until the 85 minute to send in Podolski (in most cases he never even got a chance to begin with). Using Poldi more frequently not just gives more chances and match practice to him but would send a clear message to Toni and Klose that they should not loose focus because we have talent in the bench at their positions.

On a different point, I have seen games were Klose has played a lot better than Toni but it was still Toni who received most of the praise from the management. Its like the management is trying too hard to keep him happy and IMO that has affected Klose, who after starting the season at a level higher than Toni, did not look so hot on the second quarter...

Of course you can`t have Toni and Klose at their best 100% every game, that`s why... we should have a strong bench. but when it come to the performance of our 4 strikers as a whole.. Toni and Klose should be the starters (so far) and it`s important to have a stable-squad along the season

Miss Dangerous...!! wrote:I don`t remember any game that Klose or Toni were too bad at! and on the second part of November and December, our midfield was the issue, I mean.. how could Toni and Klose score if they don`t get any good ball or a real chance to score?!

Yeah, right....and if you ask a midfielder he will tell you: how can I get the ball to the striker if he does not get unmarked?

And I am not being too inflexible on this, The best coach I ever had used to tell us, it is not sending the pass to the unmarked player, it is sending it to the player's "controlled space" that can be in front of him, to his right, to his left, behind or even to his body if that is the right choice. There is a lot of ingredients on this rule: timing, pace, mobility, vision, knowledge of your own team and the opponent, etc.

Personally, I did not see a midfielder's problem as the culprit when Bayern slowed down at the end of the first half, I saw the whole team lossing unity as a group in attack, there was a little bit of not transitioning well from defense to attack, there was some lack of mixing plays in the midfield so the attack became too predictable, there were signs of disconection between Klose and Toni, and them and the rest.

Most of these problems are related to how the team is coached, and one of the components of the problem is fielding game after game the same players in the same formation. The famous "infamous words" by Kahn: "We are like Madrid or Milan, we are not Marseille or Fiorentina", were spoken in the wrong place, but something motivated Kahn to say them. Only this fact supports my point.

Bayern in paper is better that the next Bundesliga team by a mile, in the field I saw them struggling in some matches against teams on the bottom of the table with 1/5 of Bayern's budget.

Finally about the comment of Podolski lacking effort and determination, obviously this is the responsibility of the coach, Hitzfeld himself. 90% of the coach role is to motivate players, he has a whole staff behind him to work on the rest and implement his orders. The same Podolski, at the same time played for Loew and showed effort, determination and RESULTS. How can he get motivated by Loew and not by Hitzfeld?

Something smells funny here, I hope it is Podolski, if it is Hitzfeld I see the team falling apart before the end the season and he won't be around to shake Klinsmann's hand.

First of all, you can not compare Bayern to the NT. That is not a fair assessment at all. There's more pressure at a club level than there is at the NT level. I'm not saying the NT does not have any pressure, I'm just saying it's not the same.

Secondly, I do agree that a coach should be able to motivate the players, but it can be hard to motivate a player who has that oversize ego. I'm not saying that Lukas has that but he really has been build up beyond belief. He went from a club where he basically brought them back to recognizable level, where he was viewed as "Superman" to a club that it is the biggest in Germany and one of the biggest in the world. He went from a big fish in a small pond to little fish in a big pond where the rules are totally different.

He won the WV Best Young Player Award, which is a matter of debate as to whether he deserved it or not, and was viewed as Germany's version of David Beckham. Could it very well be that he thinks too highly of himself and think he does not need to do what the others do?

Finally, if Lukas can perform for Loew and Klinsmann but not for Magath and Hitzfeld then is the coach really the problem? Could the problem be that he wants to do what he wants to do? I think by reading all the comments from Uli, Karl, Loew, Hitzfeld, and Klose says a lot about the situation. These guys are trying to get Lukas to realize something and it does not seem like it is working.

tracylynn wrote:
Finally, if Lukas can perform for Loew and Klinsmann but not for Magath and Hitzfeld then is the coach really the problem? Could the problem be that he wants to do what he wants to do? I think by reading all the comments from Uli, Karl, Loew, Hitzfeld, and Klose says a lot about the situation. These guys are trying to get Lukas to realize something and it does not seem like it is working.

If you are right, this supports the idea of letting him go elsewhere the next 6 months. If he is a spoiled brat for Uli, Karl, and Hitzfeld because "he wants to do what he wants" he is a lost case, they already gave up, what is the benefit is keeping him tied to Bayern? Let him go and in 6 months let's see if he has changed, if Klinsmann can turn him around if he has not.

Do they want to keep him in Munich because they need him or to punish him? Again I am clueless about all this situation.

poldi not going anywhere.....

http://www.soccerway.com/news/2008/January/27/slipped-disc-sets-back-bayerns-podolski

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FCB 4EVA

I see, now that he is injured the loan option is gone

the guy is overrated.

Prinz Poldi cant leave he's got some sick skills he and buddy Bastian are gonna stay! Ther to great of talent to let go

Podolski considers future
Bayern striker uncertain of where his future lies


Germany international striker Lukas Podolski says he is considering his future at Bayern Munich as a result of his lack of playing time this season.

The 22-year-old, who has spent most of the current season on the Bayern bench with coach Ottmar Hitzfeld preferring Luca Toni and Miroslav Klose in attack, expressed his frustration in an interview with Bild, saying:

"I will think about things at the end of the season. One has to think about whether the situation is good for either side.

"I want to do the thing that I have fun doing and the thing that I'm paid to do - playing football! I have been sitting on the bench long enough."

Any decision that would see Podolski leave the Allianz Arena is likely to cause a scramble for his signature in the summer, with Stuttgart, Hamburg and Werder Bremen all reportedly keen to sign the former Cologne man.

-Skysports-